|
Post by demonstrator on Nov 25, 2005 15:27:58 GMT -5
Hi all.... i like and wa surprised as i saw Christianity on a proboard for the first time. i think it is a good idea, to discuss and try to understand what really a religion means ! i am muslim my self and i have read about Christianity in school and other place and also abit about other religions. and in finale, i learned onething: the metter if a person is muslim or chirstian. or what ever they are all the same no difference not at all. when ever there beyond or been rised any religion it was for peoples life circumstances, easy and better way of it, and to teach people to be a human respect each other and rise love among all of the people, but i didn't even noticed anywhere in all of the religions that if you are a muslim kill christian... or if you are christian kill muslimes.... but today the global setuations is been changed, and now they use the name of islame and christianty, killing each other by that. which is meaningless. when ever we talk about islam or christianity or anyother religion, we have to know the real religion that what it is in reality that was all for now. do you have any comments? then welcome and post it
|
|
|
Post by lhw on Nov 25, 2005 16:22:04 GMT -5
I'm going to take a stab at addressing some things you mentioned in your post. I apologize up-front if they do not do your issues justice, as I am unclear, on several matters, what it was you were exactly trying to say. the metter if a person is muslim or chirstian. or what ever they are all the same no difference not at all. Yes, there is a difference. The MAJOR difference is that Christians see Jesus Christ as being their Lord and Savior (i.e. God incarnate), while Muslims view him as simply another prophet, similar to Muhammad. There are also several differences between what Jesus taught as being "the word of God," and what Muhammad taught: in many cases, they contradict each other, so both cannot be true. To say that there is no difference between the two would be an insult to both Christians and Muslims alike. when ever there beyond or been rised any religion it was for peoples life circumstances, easy and better way of it, and to teach people to be a human respect each other and rise love among all of the people, but i didn't even noticed anywhere in all of the religions that if you are a muslim kill christian... or if you are christian kill muslimes.... but today the global setuations is been changed, and now they use the name of islame and christianty, killing each other by that. which is meaningless. First, when Jihad is involved, you will never have peace, as there will always be fanatics on each side. Unfortunately, passages in the Koran state that people must convert to Islam, by force if necessary, or be killed. Regrettably, many people in the past have also taken passages out-of-context from the Bible, and killed in the name of God (i.e. The Crusades). The way I see it, many of today's problems stem from religions other than Christianity demanding religious equality. In doing so, Christianity itself is being "swept under the rug" in many places in the world. And yet, if Christians were to make the same demands, they would be seen as being "intolerant." When each side looks thru colored lenses, no one sees anything clearly. Thus you will have strife up until the very end.
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Nov 25, 2005 17:17:58 GMT -5
Eh, I made a long post on this posting the whole history of Islam and Christianity and how their roots begin from Abraham. And also stating the major and minor differences between the two faiths. And it was erased because I had started working on it before the thread was moved and when a posted it, KABLAMO! Gone. ;( Eh, maybe it wasn't meant that I post it or whatever. Oh well, LHW made some big points but I had made some as well. . . blah, I may rewrite it later. I'm in no mood to now. lol... It's what you get for starting a post then decorate that Xmas tree and then come back and finish. lol...
|
|
|
Post by matthew on Nov 25, 2005 20:32:07 GMT -5
oops! ;D well, i didn't move it so you can't blame me, All religious systems (the vast majority anyway) have moral codes which are pretty much the same, which are summed up by what is called The Golden Rule. If we all lived by this then, without doubt, the world would be a much better place to live in. However, religions have conflicting world views about the origin, nature, and purpose of existence. Some religious believe in God, other's do not. Some religions tell us that when we die we are reincarnated, while other say we go to heaven or hell. There are many conflicting and irreconcilable beliefs, that make harmony between different religious systems totally impossible. Unless, we believe everything or nothing at all, and just follow a moral code, and try to get through life that way. Christianity teaches that we are imperfect beings, and no matter how hard we might try, we will never be able to live up to the moral standards that God requires of us, which is complete holiness or goodness. We need to be in complete harmony with God who is completely holy. So basically, because of our imperfect nature we are totally separated from God, without any hope of being united with him, in heaven or anywhere else. Jesus, on the other hand, was born with a perfect nature and lived a perfect live, in complete harmony with God. When Jesus was killed, there was nothing, no imperfection or sin, that separated him from God, and God gave him back his life. Jesus gave his life purposefully, so that we can all share his goodness and perfection, and be united with God through him. It is only through Jesus that we can be truly moral and united with God. It is not our goodness but Jesus's, that he shares with us, and when we realize this and accept what Jesus has done for us, we can begin to let God transform us. what Jesus has done for us is totally central to what a Christian believes
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Nov 25, 2005 21:31:04 GMT -5
Yeah, oh well though. . . lol... shouldn't have procrastinated, I guess. But I'm good with it so I don't care now.
|
|
|
Post by demonstrator on Nov 26, 2005 15:00:31 GMT -5
Thankx for realping i am glad to see someone want to discuess Dear LHW, i totaly agree with you but what i meant with we are all the same was: as we are humen and liveing in this world (todays world) everybody has the same right. the world has been changed in these 2005 years alot. it is true that Muslims and Christians are not the same but in another hand if we look at the Holy books, befor that i want to mention a point! when a person is in a religion the person has a god it can be the same god as us and it can be anything, but if you blive in god, god can be anywhere show up as anyone can be in anything. The point is if a person pray to a budah. god can apear in budah. and bless the person. It depends, but all it is about is that you blive are not. However, in my post i was talking about todays world! Lets take some examples: today if you tell someone about Jesus and explane how he came to this world the person won't blive it because in todays world it is impossiable to give birth, as Mother Mary did. But i blive in it, i bline in it because in islame it says that when you are moslim you have to blive in other religions which has been sent by God for the prophets. what i think is that islam is an new version of the past religions. which means: people have to blive in god. not kill anyone don't rape anyone don't steel anything. make love among people live happy make a family and do the right things help the poor people. that is what in all of the religions has been mentioned. and i think they are the main point of a religion. Yes, there is a difference. The MAJOR difference is that Christians see Jesus Christ as being their Lord and Savior (i.e. God incarnate), while Muslims view him as simply another prophet, similar to Muhammad.
There are also several differences between what Jesus taught as being "the word of God," and what Muhammad taught: in many cases, they contradict each other, so both cannot be true.
To say that there is no difference between the two would be an insult to both Christians and Muslims alike. |
and now if we take it all very seriousely, the first think is nobody was in that time. that can tell us what happend and what was going on.. all we know is from the old books and our blive help us as will. the rules which was made and the religion was made for a Lifetime of about 2005 to 1383 years ago. and we all know that the world is not the same anymore. people are changed life and everything has been changed. if we take the Quran or Bible, in one hand and to exactly what it says to us, we can't live as we do now. As i know many of my friends who are Christian, they haven't been to Church for mounths, me my slef.... i have to pray 5 times a day as a good muslime but i can't i try hard to do once a week... among other muslem brothers... and everytime when we are finish... we ask god to bless everybody in this world. guide them in the right way make love among all peoples, and Amen to last. I think what most emportant if for me. that i have to blive in god do the right thing help people who need help, and god will be glad.
|
|
|
Post by bethany54 on Nov 26, 2005 17:04:06 GMT -5
You know I have thought a lot about this thread since I first saw it yesterday. I wanted to reply then but a kind of fear took hold of me since I have seen this kind of thread get way out of hand very quickly. However, knowing Mahud and coming to know Shan, I am now prepared to post my response.
Demonstrator, it seems very clear to me that English is a language that you are not totally comfortable in. I suspect that there are things you would say if you knew the right words. I may be totally wrong of course, but I suspect that part of what you are trying to say is God is God no matter what name you call Him by we who believe in our God try our best to serve Him as we understand Him. And that we are all more the same kind of people underneath everything than we are different.
I personally will go one step farther with this. I believe that there was no reason for Jesus to die twice. Once was enough to save the entire world over millions of times. Who is to say with certainty that Jesus didn't go to these other places in the world as a teacher. He had already fulfilled the role of Savior once.
Mahud spoke of the Golden Rule. I am in agreement with him that most of the major religions have writings that endorse this. I have studied many of them as extensively as possible for an English speaking person to do when trying to understand a different language and way of speaking. The Bible was first written in ancient Hebrew (OT) and even Hebrew scholars sometimes disagree about what a translation should say to be totally true and accurate. The New Testament was mostly written in Greek and the same issue arise in a younger but still ancient text. So how do we know that what we are using as our "proof" to show others that they are wrong is really proof? Earlier versions of the Bible sometimes differ greatly from the King James Version which has become somewhat of a standard reference for those re translating ancient texts.
I would imagine that many of those other religious writings have gone through similar translations and revisions. Some of the original meanings and writings have been lost or rewritten, often at the direction of the ruling party.
Demonstrator, I have never yet seen it said in any holy writing from any religion that a person should go out and kill others who worship their God differently. But I have seen in history books where rulers of countries of countries or nations used religious differences to invoke a war. . . even among Christians. We sometimes as people let our beliefs prejudice us in ways that God would not be pleased with. Look at the Catholics and the Protestants in Ireland for proof of that.
I live in a town in Colorado USA where we have a few Muslims and after the terrorist attack on New York and DC, some of these good people found themselves under attack from people that they had never met. The attackers here used Christianity as a justification for their actions. Funny thing is that when questioned about their beliefs, they really have none of their own and just use what they think is Christian thinking to try and escape punishment for their wrong and immoral behavior.
Demonstrator, I won't try to convince you that you are wrong in what you believe because firstly I cannot see inside your heart as you cannot see inside of mine. Secondly, I have been commanded to love and told NOT to judge others. I won't judge you nor kill you because you are one of God's Children even if your God has a different Name than mine.
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Nov 26, 2005 22:16:34 GMT -5
Um, I've been reading in this thread a lot about believing in God whether it be Allah, Yahweh, Jehova, whatever name you want to call Him and following Him and what He says because you believe in Him. But that isn't the basis of a relationship. A true relationship. Even the demons believe in God. They tremble at His name. You must love God, along with believing, in order to have a real relationship. It hasn't been until recently that I come to understand this. It is through Love that we live and in order for our relationship with God to thrive, we must love the One who first loved us.
EDIT: changed some words. . .
|
|
|
Post by matthew on Nov 27, 2005 0:18:21 GMT -5
Loving God is definitely the most important thing of all. you've hit the nail on the head there
|
|
|
Post by demonstrator on Nov 28, 2005 4:41:09 GMT -5
Great ! this thread is geting more and even more intresseting Dear Bethany, you are absolutely right, English is not even the second language like english i know 7 more languages. but the main language which i use in the country here is Danish which is alot diffrent then english. well however, as long as you understand what i mean, i can be satisfied with that. you know i totaly agree with you, about the translation of the holi books. as time pasted each time when the holi books has been translated, it wasn't the same as the one befor. like, Quran has been written in old arabic language, but today if you tell any one, who know arabic language don't understand what it says in Quran. not even arabs them selfs. and it is the same with Bible as you said it was wriiten in GreeK for the first time or the lokal lagnuage where Jesus was born. but all we can tell about tell about the past is from the books which people written time by time and the transelations. there is onething i want to mention, that as people are different from one another, they understand thinks not the samme even if you show tow person a movie and after that tell them to write something about it, it won't be the same. so what i mean is the books or what ever we write about the past or old days has been written by different people with different mind of understanding. and all the things with Terrorist and we are killing by the name of Allah, they are all nothing more then a lie and what can be easier to use a religion as an excuse for killing morder or what ever. Terrorists are nothing to do with islam and muslims. We have the same God, it is just the name we call Allah and you call God. and onething thing else: we can't name God or Allah as (he)... God is not a human and we don't know that if God is he or she or it... God is something that we don't really know and i think we should find something better then (He) and loveing the God is the most important thing for use... and do the right things
|
|
|
Post by lhw on Nov 28, 2005 5:48:21 GMT -5
I don't have time to really get into this, so I'm just going to comment on one thing that stood out: We have the same God, it is just the name we call Allah and you call God. I'm sorry, but this is not true. Christians belive in the Triune God, and that means that Jesus Christ is our God. We cannot "have the same God" if He is simply reduced to a prophet in Islam. While many beliefs may be similar, this one is what separates the two from ever finding peace. I just skimmed the post (I'm in a hurry to get to work this morning), so I apologize if I took this out of context.
|
|
|
Post by demonstrator on Nov 28, 2005 8:45:58 GMT -5
We have the same God, it is just the name we call Allah and you call God. I'm sorry, but this is not true. Christians belive in the Triune God, and that means that Jesus Christ is our God. We cannot "have the same God" if He is simply reduced to a prophet in Islam. Well i haven't met lots of Christians who blive that Jesus is God. But I read or someone told me (don't really remeber), that when Jesus was killed Jesus went to Heaven or there where God was (his sol) ofcourse. but what you are trying to say is that when Jesus was killed for the last time he went to the sky and become The God. I am dieing to know that: What Happend To The God Which Was Befor Jesus? (Which means that Jesus told people that there is a God) so what really happend to that God? or it also means that you have 2 Gods? I had this discussion with lots of Christians, and they told me diffrent stories. as i menstioned befor in my last post .....different people........ but mostly they blive. have have 1 God (the same) and when Jesus was killed he went to the sky but he is not the god. and some people belive that when as the last day comes near and the world disasters begins Jesus would come to Rule the world. i blive the same but there where it says when the Jesus Returens: in islam it is: when the last Prophet Returns to this world. and it is unclear that it is Jesus or Muhamad or someone eles
|
|
|
Post by bethany54 on Nov 28, 2005 11:21:25 GMT -5
Demonstrator,
I am going to try to reduce some of this to very simple terms so that everyone can be on the same page even if only for a second or two. Most Christians believe in the Holy Trinity. The Holy Trinity is ONE God in three parts. Now to try to simplify that isn't all that easy but I think that we can agree that water can come in 3 forms. . . liquid, solid (ice), and gas (steam). All three, liquid water, ice, and stream are still H2O but they have different properties.
We know God as the Father, Jesus as the Son, and the Holy Spirit as the Comforter. John1:1 tells us "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." There are lots of other verses that could be quoted but I think that that one is enough.
|
|
|
Post by Demonstratoor on Nov 28, 2005 13:01:44 GMT -5
Ok so far i am with. but when you say 3 Gods on 1, should i understand that Jesus was or is a part of the God + Holi Spirit. it can be possiable that Jesus was a part of god which was send to Earth. but if you say that when Jesus was killed and went to sky, then Jesus took or been replaced with God and become the (new) God. that would be a little confuseing. becuase tehn you have to think that what happend to the (old) God there are many Christians that don't blive in any God. Today on my way home. i asked lots and lots of people. they mostly didn't blive. and the ones who did said different things. however. i blived in 1 God and i will for rest of my life. and ofcrouse i would blive all of the prophets which been send by God
|
|
|
Post by bethany54 on Nov 28, 2005 15:53:06 GMT -5
Our God is One Being in 3 parts.
|
|