|
|
Post by Ifrit on Jan 16, 2006 15:23:08 GMT -5
I really think someone should block guests from this board, before something happends... i don't take to lightly on these type of things for so long.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lhiata on Jan 17, 2006 14:58:03 GMT -5
*note* Rich, you handled that really well, I just wanted to say that...  |
|
|
|
Post by lostsoul on Jan 24, 2006 13:06:17 GMT -5
oh dear....il explain some other time......2 seconds later......ok basically this thread is too long for me to even bother reading through it i just think of it like this yet i have arguments against it....You have to have more faith to not to believ in A god then it is to belive in one. Really i cant be bothered to say any more...so PM me for my ideas etc on it.
|
|
|
|
Post by paragon on Feb 17, 2006 17:40:58 GMT -5
I think a God may exist, though not necessarily the God Christians, Jews, Muslims and whoever else believes.
I used to be Catholic, but now it really just doesn't make any sense to me. The only reason religion was created in the first place was to explain why things are the way they are, something science is far better qualified for, and doing a better job of, in my opinion.
And if a God does exist, I am certain that God would be far more simple than the God most Christians believe in, with no rules, no symbols or rules, simply simple (yet at the same time, terribly complex, in ways we cannot understand). If you were to assign this God a symbol, the only fitting one would be a sideways 8 (the symbol for infinity).
|
|
|
|
Post by matthew on Feb 17, 2006 17:56:32 GMT -5
All i really want is a relationship with God, and i am starting to finally develop one since i first became a Christian ten years ago. yeah, it has taken me a while ;D I'm sure God is more complex rather than simple, according to what many monotheistic religions believe, but i try to keep it simple and I don't really have a huge amount to do with symbols, personally. although i'm not against them |
|
|
|
Post by Nya on Feb 17, 2006 18:26:08 GMT -5
Wow this thread has some very interesting posts in it.
One God is real reguardless weither it can be proven or not. Everyone must find their own way to God weither it takes a day or a whole lifetime.
Me I beilve in him I would not be here had he not wished me to be here. For he could have taken me many years ago if he had wanted me 8 years ago infact he saved me and I have not looked back I may get upset at him from time to time but I would never turn my back on him.
I may even question the book but thats just how I have become. Like is what is said in the book Real? did he Really say that? or is it just what someone wrote saying he said this or that. I mean after all the book has been rewriten a number of times and it would not be that hard to change words around or write what the writer really wanted it to say.
Thats not to say what is in the book looses any meaning its just I cant confirm to myself if what they say he said is what he really said.
As to where we came from well thats in the air. God created us or created the beginings of us either way you look at it God Made Us Period...
Well hope I dont upset anyone with what I said guess im going through a phase.
|
|
|
|
Post by matthew on Feb 17, 2006 18:43:27 GMT -5
That's probably not too far off what I believe, Nya. I accept the New Testament enough to believe in Jesus, and my experience is that God is veryvery real . Regarding our beginnings, I'm prone to believe that the Creation Story is one of a number of mythical attempts to understand how everything kicked off, and, i reckon, it's probably one of the closest. How everything came to be had it's origins in the mind of God |
|
|
|
Post by Nya on Feb 17, 2006 19:21:56 GMT -5
Hehe yeah? Cool always wondered if there was not least some that beleived similar to my own. Yeah that is one thing that people will be debating for all time.. 'The Chicken and the Egg' which came first. Well you gotta have the chicken to have the egg so logicly it had to have come first. But guess we will all get our questions answered when we get up there to meet him huh? |
|
|
|
Post by paragon on Feb 17, 2006 19:47:05 GMT -5
I don't think God would need to have a book written about himself to make people believe in him. If there is a god, I'm sure on some level, even those of us who claim we do not believe, really do. But a book? Any truly all-powerful God would not need to have peopel write a book about him for people to believe, all he would have to do is post a simple idea in our minds.
Beyond that, any all-powerful being likely gives little care what we all do, because to exist is to be a part of that being in the first place, and no sins will seperate us from infinity, simply because infinity, by virtue, is infinite, and thus must be everything, including people, whether they follow any arbitrary set of moral laws.
To die is not to end an existance. How can one end infinity? If you have existed, you thus exist, because infinity is not temporal, and your temporal existance, having existed, and been a part of infinity, cannot at any point cease to exist.
Anyone losing me yet?
|
|
|
|
Post by Age of Grunge on Feb 17, 2006 19:58:28 GMT -5
Dude, I'm Atheist, but I'm not going to come to these nice peoples' forum, and tell them that. That's just inappropriate, so what, you don't believe in God, well respect that they do. |
|
|
|
Post by matthew on Feb 17, 2006 20:19:51 GMT -5
I suppose God could reveal himself (or not) in an infinite number of ways. be it a book, or a flower or a grain of sand. God reveals himself to me through many different ways. At the moment I feel his presence upon me. At other times he might reveal himself to me through a smile, or perhaps through a song, or a movie. God revealed himself to me through a Star Trek movie once. He also reveals himself to me by the people he brings into my life I find God reveals himself through little things , and he care about every aspect of my life and being. God's infinity encompasses the infinitesimally small as well as the infinitely large. Infinity stretches both ways...and beyond. For what ever reason the universe is ephemeral. In a constant state of birth, death , decay and rebirth. There is a distinction between the realm of indestructible eternity (that which is beyond the gates of death) from the ever-revolving realm of temporal existence. It is the question that has been in the minds of religious thinkers since before the rise of upanisdadic era of ancient India. In Christianity the cause is bound up in selfish desires that separate us from the Divine. In Buddhism the cause is desire full stop. The distinction in Buddhism is , of cause regarded as illusionary, but nether the less, a distinction is made. |
|
|
|
Post by ProSaxPlayer on Feb 17, 2006 23:29:09 GMT -5
Ok, I am Agnostic, Aithiest, whatever.
This isn't proof exactly, but can lead to proof.
1. The Bible's Creation
Ok, I just want to make this comment.
The History Books in Classes state things happening years and years ago. We trust this because someone wrote it down, and we believe it. Well, if none of us were there, then how would we know it was real? I mean, come on. You find a peice of paper 2,000 years old. It says God is Real. Are you gonna believe that? Because somebody 2,000 years ago wrote that?
This relates to the Bible. Somebody along time ago 'wrote' the bible, or a group of people. Why? Because they believed in it. Nothing can prove the Bible was created by God.
2. Death's Occurance
When we die, what will happen? Will we go to Heaven? Or will we go to Hell? Or will we just stop living, nothing else ever happens.
Would you personally want to live forever? I know I wouldn't.. but that isn't why I don't believe in God... because of my personal preference, that would be stupid.
3. My "Sin"
I am Bi. I can't change who I am, no matter what I do. It's who I am. When I believed in God, I preyed to him to change me. Have I for 3 years since I preyed to him that? No.
I would do anything to be straight, can I? No, it's who I am, unfornuately. It's caused depression, almost caused me to commit suicide. But I didn't, because I wanted to live longer before I died, and maybe never appear or see anything again. (see 2)
Being Gay or Bi is a sin. Sinners can't go to Heaven or whatever unless forgiven. I can't go to Heaven because something happened to me I have no control over, yeah, real fair....
Conclusion
So that's what I can say to make why I don't believe in God.
I will probably always stay Agnostic.
And don't worry, I will reply.
|
|
|
|
Post by paragon on Feb 18, 2006 1:37:19 GMT -5
Sexual preference should only be pertinent where it occurs: in the bedroom. I'm sick of people treating homosexuals and bisexuals as though something was wrong with them, but this is a topic for another time. The issue at hand is whether God exists.
First, if I may be so bold to point out that no matter what happens, we will likely not determine the truth here.
So here's what it boils down to: You don't know for a fact that God does not exist, and I do not know for a fact that He does not. This leaves us with only one option: to attempt to determine the truth from the evidence we have.
I can start with a phenomenon that has made many people firm believers in God: Prayer. When considering prayer, there are two aspects to address; the feeling of relief that can come from prayer, and the prayers that are answered.
Religious reasoning for the relief prayer can help a person feel is that, in the case of confessing, or asking God for help, one may feel the touch of God, the easing of conscience.
Psychologically speaking, humans have used speech therapy for a decent amount of time now, to help treat patients, especially with anxiety. Speech therapy is simply venting one's thoughts and woes, either to a willing ear, or perhaps to a wall, or a percieved "God". When speaking one's feelings, a person can feel better, because it allows them to acknowledge the presence of their feelings, and begin to work around these feelings. When in trouble, speech therapy may help organize thoughts into a more linear, and thus easily manageable form, that will help a person cope with the problem, and determine a course of action or solution.
A request to God in the form of prayer, according to religious people, may be answered, proving the existance of God to those people.
A request may also be granted simply by chance. A person requesting something through prayer generally tends to request something very reasonable, and sometimes not tangible. The result may be that the request comes true, simply because it was already likely to do so in the first place. Beyond that, the human mind only tends to remember events of importance. An answered request is always more important to a person than an unanswered one, especially since the request is likely something the person wants to a certain degree. Beyond that, prayers generally do not assign a time constraint to the request, thus a request may be considered "in the works" rather than "unanswered". Keep a prayer log. Write down every request you make in prayer. Every week, mark which prayers have been answered, and which have not. You may find that the actual answered number of prayers is far lower than you would expect, and could very easily be explained as simply occuring through coincidence.
I admit, my representation is biased, but these are comparisons of the reasons, from which I find it hard to believe in God, and far easier to accept the "logical" explanation.
What is the next aspect we should compare beliefs about?
|
|
|
|
Post by matthew on Feb 18, 2006 3:36:23 GMT -5
God is more compassionate that we usually give him credit for, ProSaxPlayer. And I don't believe he holds against us stuff which we have no control over. Who we are is to a very large extent shaped by the lives and circumstances around us, and this is true for everyone. what makes us the kind of people we are, whether we strive for what is good or pursue bad stuff, is very much out of our control. God knows that we are not perfect and he knows we are helpless to help ourselves much of the time, and he takes that into consideration. The thing we should not do is beat ourselves up over things we cannot change by our our strength. and we also need to distinguish between things that need to be changed from those we think need to be changed. Give your problems to God, and one way or another he will be with you and help you. He doesn't want to condemn, he wants to help. I'm sorry that you feel excluded from having a relationship with God. Many of us here have experienced the same or similar things. Even now I struggle to have a relationship with God, and there is much in my life that gets in the way. But slowly slowly God is helping me. |
|
|
|
Post by wwe80 on Feb 19, 2006 13:03:52 GMT -5
God Is Real Dam it have you not see the signs
|
|
|
|
Post by phantasy on Feb 19, 2006 13:04:51 GMT -5
God Is Real Dam it have you not see the signs Dude, cursage isn't needed. |
|
|
|
Post by paragon on Feb 19, 2006 15:06:01 GMT -5
Some of us don't find these "signs" sufficient. Thats all.
|
|
|
|
Post by lostsoul on Feb 19, 2006 16:11:04 GMT -5
These posts are too long for me to have time to read  anyways i believe in God and i dont wnat ot explain why and this time....dont PM me for info . Some people believe in the devil and hell but not God and Heaven...does that mean we are all heading for hell? I dont really care, i dont want ot get into disscusions about whether he is real or not. However how can everything be so perfect?....if you want info on that PM me cos i once again cant be bothered writing it down yet. I will give you a whole list ofreasons why God is real  |
|
|
|
Post by Aaron on Feb 19, 2006 16:49:58 GMT -5
God Is Real Dam it have you not see the signs WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, your the one that made about him not being real. You believe in Allah?....I'm lost, did you cross over? |
|
|
|
Post by ProSaxPlayer on Feb 19, 2006 17:14:22 GMT -5
God is more compassionate that we usually give him credit for, ProSaxPlayer. And I don't believe he holds against us stuff which we have no control over. Who we are is to a very large extent shaped by the lives and circumstances around us, and this is true for everyone. what makes us the kind of people we are, whether we strive for what is good or pursue bad stuff, is very much out of our control. God knows that we are not perfect and he knows we are helpless to help ourselves much of the time, and he takes that into consideration. The thing we should not do is beat ourselves up over things we cannot change by our our strength. and we also need to distinguish between things that need to be changed from those we think need to be changed. Give your problems to God, and one way or another he will be with you and help you. He doesn't want to condemn, he wants to help. I'm sorry that you feel excluded from having a relationship with God. Many of us here have experienced the same or similar things. Even now I struggle to have a relationship with God, and there is much in my life that gets in the way. But slowly slowly God is helping me. Yeah, well, I can't believe in him when everyday people decide to hate me because of something I don't have control over... |
|
